Andrew Pawlak is the CEO of leadPops, a lead generation and marketing solutions platform directed towards mortgage brokers, loan officers, realtors, and insurance agents.
I know what you're thinking...this doesn't apply to gym owners. Wrong! Andrew understands the psychology and strategies behind successful lead generation and provides tried and true tips for generating more leads for your gym business.
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Welcome to the Gym OS podcast, helping fitness professionals become better business owners. One episode at a time. Hey, guys, what's up? Dan Uemura here. Push Breasts, Jim OS podcast. How many of you guys have tried to set up proper lead funnels? I mean, it's stuff we see all the time in the gym world. It's the stuff you've probably paid a guru or thought of hating, paying a guru for, um, to set up these landing pages that help you get people's interest captured to dump them into a sales funnel and figure out how to turn them into a client. Well, if you've done that, you realize there's there's a science to it. It's not as easy as one would think. Um, anybody can set up a landing page, but to create a landing page that converts, there is a little bit of magic behind it. And you're in luck because today we got Andrew Pollack here, and his whole business is centered around getting these websites up for real estate agents and mortgage brokers that are built to convert. So if you ever gonna, like, search for mortgage in your area and you've ended up on the landing page or a website, and you've typed in your name and some information about you to see if you qualify for a loan. That could have been Andrews Webb's Webb system that he sells two real estate agents, and he hasn't spent a ton of time trying to understand the psychology of a person hitting these pages and what makes them go through the steps of filling out the form. And how do we get a lead all the way into the system and then training his agents and brokers on how to follow up with these people to get them if if they're good fit into the sold into the matrix of products of these people are selling. So it's a pretty cool inside because we're gonna be learning from from ah, person who's working in an industry where every lead really matters. Ah, the real estate industry is pretty cutthroat for leads. It might cost you $1000 for a lead on the real estate world because the payoff is so big. So I like having these types of guests on the podcast because in their world, this is such ah, high cost, high value thing that they're gonna dial it in. Perfectly leads are expensive to most gyms and finished studios, but nowhere near is expensive as they are for a mortgage broker. So without further ado, let's let's jump on over to the podcast and listen to what Andrew has to say about this whole thing. And I'll catch you on the other side of this. All right, guys. Well, what's up? Welcome to the gym OS podcast. This is Dan Wimmer, your host here CEO of Push Breast, where we're helping make fitness professionals better business professionals. One episode at a time I've got with me today, Andrew Pollack Pollack. I always miss up people's names.
You got a man. I can't. I can't get yours. Right. So yeah, all. Like, no worries.
That's okay. I always overthink. I'm Andrew Pollack. Ah, for the record, my last names like W a Y Way, Mara. That's what I always tell people.
Women That's got it.
Cool. So Andrew is the CEO of lead lead. Pop the pops.
Yeah. Lead pops dot com
lead pops dot com, Which is Ah, basically generation system landing page system. Ah, for real estate professional. Is that correct?
Yes. So our bread and bread and butter right now is mortgage. Real estate insurance in mortgage and real estate are pretty heavily intertwined. So, um yeah?
Yep. So basically, Andrew's working in a space where the cost of acquiring customers pretty high Am I correct in assuming that,
Yeah, the clicks are are expensive on Google. The payoff. The ticket item is pretty high, you know. And when you when you sell a mortgage, you're making anywhere from a couple $1000 to 67 $8000 on alone. So it's a high commission ticket item, so people are willing to pay a good amount of money to close alone. They're willing to pay a lot of money for clicks. They're willing to pay a lot of money for leads relatively to get to get a deal. So so it's pretty highly your mole.
Lately in our industry, I've heard a lot of grown. I don't do any paid ads for my Jim's or I haven't before I left the gym just because I sucked at it. Um, that's not to say it can't be really effective. In fact, I know it can, but a lot of people who have been doing paid ads who had seen a lot of success in it, are now complaining and grumbling that the cost per click is getting more expensive. Can you tell me in your industry what people are paying per click?
Yeah. So I was just doing a presentation for um Ah, a mortgage alliance that I'm gonna be talking to you next week in this funny one of my slides is going over a specific keyword for a type of loan that that loan is veet loans. It's, ah, alone for veterans and military. The cost per click on that key word is $79. So 79 bucks per click, not per lead per click. That's that's on the higher end. That zit. That's an expensive keyword, but the average keyword is probably eight bucks. $10.12 bucks, $15 a click, depending on what? What specific it aeration of it. It is, but your mortgage keywords air really expensive.
And those air Google keywords, not Facebook. I'm assuming.
Yeah, Google keyword.
Right. Okay, so $79 a click Astronomical. I would say $10 per click is probably a little more expensive than what? Gym owners air seeing. But now we're talking more in line. The reason I want to bring this up is because you were saying just a second ago that the payoff for landing a client on this is couple anywhere from couple 1000 to $8000. Um, that would be the consider the the lifetime value. The client assuming they don't come back, correct.
Yeah, well, if you get if you if you keep getting that client, if you're good at the follow up, I mean, you might That's on one lone. Right, So you get one lone. The average mortgage professional average loan officer is, I would say, in most cases, not getting more than one or two deals out of the same client just because their follow up isn't good. But the lifetime value would be considerably higher if you consider that the average person is involved with or influences multiple home purchase, transaction or transactions were refinances over the life of their you know, their living in houses. So ah, one deal. You might make two or three or five or $8000 depending on where you're at in the country. If you got two or three deals out of that same client, you might make $25,000 off of that one client. If you're very good at the follow up, you stay in front of them and some of that stuff that you know, every everybody, no matter what the industry needs to be better at. I think
I agree, and that's something we'll touch on later in this episode. But the reason I wanted to bring that up is because for a gym, let's assume that you keep you remember for two years, which, honestly, I think a lot of Jim's on average, probably keep their members longer. If they're doing well at 150 bucks a month, that's $3600. So we're talking apples to apples here, for the most part in terms of the cost of lead generation and the potential payoff for what they dio. Um, the one thing I think real estate and mortgages are way more sophisticated than the average gym owner and in is they have a much more competitive space to attract lead, so they become better at it in terms of knowing how to how to approach the sale and knowing how to put up the proper landing page and all these kind of things. Um, I think Jim owners have a little ways to go in that, and that's kind of what I want to broach upon with you here today. Um, can you tell us a little bit like the mechanics of Ah, landing page like That's your business. That's what you do. What makes a good landing page?
All right, great questions. So well, yeah, you mentioned like, mortgage is pretty highly evolved. I would say it is definitely. There's some really big companies, like $1,000,000,000 companies competing in this arena that a lot of them are actually just companies that sell leads. Most people don't even know that when they think of a Zillo, they think of like a lending tree. What? These people think that all these air, just like big websites like lending tree might even be like a bank that does loans. They're not they they sell leads. That's what they do. They sell people's data. You go to Zillow, you fill out a form. They're selling your information to mortgage companies. You goto LendingTree. They tell you, banks compete. You win. No, you don't. You kind of lose because they're gonna take your information and they're gonna sell it toe five or 10 or 20 banks. And now you've got your phone's ringing. It's insane. So these companies that have, like bid up the cost of these key words, have spent a lot of money and time trying to figure out not just how to get traffic. But how do you convert traffic like that's the big thing, like getting a bunch of clicks. It can easily turn on Google ads, Facebook do emails, blog's videos, all this and that and get a get a lot of klicks and get a lot of eyeballs. But the key is coupling that with the landing page that's gonna convert leads for you and doing it in a way that's that's gonna obviously be profitable. Um, and that's where I think a lot of people are just totally missing the boat you asked about, like the breakdown of a good landing page. Other are multiple, multiple things that go into that. But, you know, just to start from the very beginning, making sure you're picking key words that are going to drive the right kind of traffic based on what you're going after, If you're doing Google ads or if you're doing block content, you know, videos, whatever it is, I think you gotta look at tools like ECM rush dot com, which is a great one. It's going to give you the key word volume or search volume about. You know what people are looking for, what they're typing in into Google that gives you a really good starting point as to what you want to create. Content for what you want to create block articles and videos for a start at the beginning. And look at okay, what are people actually searching for? I'm looking for and create your keyword list based on what people want and what their you know, what their interests are. We know. All right,
so I want to dive into that really quick. So for me and you, we're kind of we're we're working with people on a national or maybe even international level. If your ah local real estate agent or a local gym, how do you find key words that are pregnant like does it not matter the locality of it, or the keywords persistent across all.
Well, if you're running Google ads, it's great because you can, uh, localized the search the geographic area that you're getting traffic from. So you can say I only want to show my ads to people within 10 miles or 25 miles of my location. They can still be typing in a topic you know, based on whether it's diet or nutrition or fitness or or workout sessions or anything you know Jim's near me or personal trainers or whatever it might be. You could make sure that that ad is only showing to the people that are in that geographic area. Um, so you know most of our clients and mortgage and real estate, for example. They're not. They're not doing business outside of their local market, especially the real estate agents. They're like, I'm not even gonna drive more than five miles outside of like where I live to show houses. This is like my territory. This is where I do business. This is where people recognize me. This is right. My signs are my benches, all this, you know, all that stuff that they dio and that's their focus so they wouldn't want to come up like I'm in San Diego. No realtor in San Diego is gonna want to come up for Los Angeles or Orange County. Really, that's not that's they would never go that far. And a lot of them won't even drive Thio other areas within San Diego that are, you know, 2030 miles apart. So being able to geographically place your ads is a big part of any kind of, uh, campaign online. You know, whether it's Google ads Facebook, you can pretty much target the areas that you want to show your ads, too,
right? So let's actually jump back to the original question that was about landing pages. So a lot of like a lot of gym owners, they'll they'll subscribe to systems which give them challenges or things to build an ad campaign around. And the reason for that? For those who haven't kind of broken it down, it's because a buyer who's finding an ad online needs some type of motivation to actually make a purchase. If it's kind of like you're buying ads that just linked to your home page, there's not gonna be anything to motivate. Some spend any money. It's just awareness, which isn't that effective? What can the gym owner do that could help them create an ad? Send it to landing page? Like what? Type of an offer And what type of a landing page would be what you would consider highly converting. I know you're not the gym space, but, you know, let's try and stretch your boundaries here.
Yeah, Yeah, sure. So, Okay, it's a real quick back to back to the keywords in the topics because this is this is relevant to the landing page. When you identify your keyword that you want to target, you want to make sure you're driving people to a landing page that matches that key word. So the ad copy of that of that search phrase matches. So if someone types in the Google search Ah, it could be Jim near me. You know, for example, they're gonna place local gyms. Let's just say in San Diego, if you're one of those gyms that comes up, you're gonna wanna have obviously references to San Diego, Jim, Best personal trainer in San Diego. You want your reviews to be showing if you've got good reviews. That's a really important part of this whole, this whole digital marketing strategy, no matter what, your reputation, is gonna be really important for people. So having a landing page that matches that search quarry, or if it's a specific nutrition plan or a specific diet or a specific training curriculum, people are looking for that. People are typing into Google that you train on or that you teach. You want your landing page to match whatever that phrase is as closely as possible. So if I'm typing in a certain training style that I'm looking for someone someone being able to teach me or get involved in as a consumer when I hit your landing page. If that's that specific keyword that I typed in into Google, it's important to have a landing page that matches that specific training style or whatever you know. That nutrition plan might be that people are searching for it. That's something you're offering, and it's kind of a niche within your, uh, within your your offering. Your key words need to match your landing page. It's called Ad sent. A lot of people, just inherently. They think I'm gonna have 11 website or one landing page. I'm gonna drive all of my traffic to it. The more landing pages you have, the better and the better dialed in the keywords in the landing page is two to each other, the more closely tied into each other. They are the AdSense days, very familiar for people. So as they click and they typed in something in a Google, they see your your Google ad is coming up where you placed naturally in Google or whatever. Maybe your block post comes up. If they click in that, that phrase that they see in that ad is an exact match or a very close match to what they just typed into Google. The chance of them even clicking in the first place, goes up. So when they do the search, they see you come up your ad copy matches what they typed in. These things start lining up. You start to see a higher click through rate you start to see people are clicking on you, maybe more so than someone that's even paying. Ah, higher amount per click. Google rewards your your your page score, and they're looking at the fact that hey, this page is getting more clicks we're gonna place a higher than maybe someone who's actually bidding Maur per click because they're they're page quality is higher, and they're getting more people to actually click on them because it's lining up. And now when I click on your page, the ad copy matching the keyword in the search that people are typing in is important versus just taking me to the home page of a gym website. Having an actual landing page dedicated to that topic is important. What a lot of people are also missing is a good call to action in the mortgage world. This is a huge problem for for a loan officers and and mortgage originators, you really have a call to action is just a bunch of stuff to read, and it's just kind of like hope and pray marketing. There's nothing really directing you to take that next step, which is in most cases getting a quote, finding out if you're eligible, seeing if you qualify. Ah, using the right wording to see to get people to click on what you want them to click on is really important. A lot of people are missing that it's just stuff to read and a contact form like name email, phone number. What we find in the mortgage side of things is that asking more information, not just give me your contact information and tell me where you live is a very important way to get people to interact and answer some easier questions first. So the setup typically is good. Strong call to action. You direct people to do something you have like a nice fat call to action button. It should see an
apple. Give me example one for a gym so we can talk in their language.
Call to action for a gym who I wish you would. Give me one man. Um, find out if this nutrition plan is right for you or take this quiz to see if you know this this weight loss plan that's, you know I'm I have
no R or qualify for a free consultation, things like like it needs to be very directive that they're going to get some value out of the actions that they're taking as opposed to, like, find out more, right?
Yeah, learn Maur. Stuff like that doesn't really work. It's always just In most cases, it's a lot of stuff to read, and we're just kind of crossing our fingers, hoping that people are going to call us or they're just going to give us their name, email, phone number, which a lot of people shy away from. If I just hit your website, I clicked on a Google ad or it's it's, you know, a block post or a video that got me to your side or to your landing page. Most people don't come to a to a website in just right off the bat. Look forward to giving up their name, email and phone number. So we find is there's a method to ask for information that doesn't scare people off. You ask more questions about like, Hey, what's what? What are your What are your goals? You know, I want to lose weight. I want to be more nutritious. I wanna work out. Five. You ask some really easy questions and you layer those questions on one at a time. You don't ask him 25 questions at once. You might actually end up asking him 15 or 20 questions. There's kind of a sweet spot we found on the mortgage side anywhere from 12 to 20. Questions is kind of the sweet spot. Too few questions. People aren't invested enough. They drop out. They're more likely to give you a fake name, email, phone number, too many questions. For obvious reasons. People people will not go all the way through the process. But you ask a good enough number of questions and you you present those questions in a way where I could just if I'm on my phone, I could just tap my way through point and click. I'm on my mouth. I can very quickly answer a whole bunch of questions that are useful. It's gonna help you qualify your lead. It's gonna help you. So if you got like, let's just say two or three leads that came in at the exact same time and I had you answer like 15 questions before, and I can actually compare each of these side by side, and this one's like, Ah, man, this guy serious. This is my main question. One of my questions is, how soon are you looking to to start your custom fitness plan ASAP? 0 to 3 months, 6 to 9 months or whatever and this guy says sometime in the future, and this guy said 3 to 6 months and this one said ASAP, and everything else in that in that lead form that I have set up looks pretty good. This person looks like they're serious. They're they're willing to spend money. They may be one of my questions asks about how much they've invested in fitness programs in the past and what other kinds of fitness programs they've been involved in. Now I can see how this guy's. Actually, he spent 1000 bucks already on other stuff. I can tell this is someone that serious? They're not just looking for, like three reports about how to diet or something. Some pill to lose weight, you know you can kind of. But by asking certain questions, you can kind of figure out the mindset of the person. Or what kind of person is this? This is the guy that's looking for a diet pill for 30 bucks a month, or is this someone that's really serious or oh, they're looking to train for a marathon or something coming up. They've got a wedding later this year. They're looking to lose £20. I can use that in my conversations with this person, as added motivation, because I understand there why? So you're asking questions to learn about them, to qualify your lead, to glean valuable information. And it's a lot better when you get a lead that comes in that you've got, like, 15 or 20 pieces of information versus just a name, email and phone number that this person might want toe like join your gym or do like a free 30 days, whatever with you. We have a lot of good questions now, like Okay, cool. Now I know how to kind of when I when I call this person back, because that's the next phase of this whole thing we can talk about. But now, when I call this person back based on their answers to these questions, I kind of know how to position the conversation or which way I want to kind of take things based on these answers. I'm a much better sales person as a result of having this quick needs assessment come in along with their contact info. Then I would be if I just had a kind of start from scratch, and I don't have anything other than their contact information. Like in my world. Most most people want less good leads than Maur crappy leads. You know, I'd rather call 10 people and have 56 good conversations than get 100 leads and have 56 good conversations. More leads is good.
It's about your time, right? Like 100 leads that come through is your time. Could you have to talk to them all? And I think one thing that's important to notice or to mention, and everything you've said is a lot of people that they set up their lead flow without, really, it's without considering what they would want to do. And Nick talked about this. Ah, Arciero in his podcast about setting up your cell's processes if you were the customer. If you just came on to some Random Service companies website, probably the last thing you want to do without getting to know them is giving your name, email, address and phone number, right. But if you're if you were asked a bunch of questions that were actually pertinent to, what you need is a customer that's more interesting to you like Hey, what is your goal? You know you're training for something. Can I help you with something like like if you're actually diving down their needs, as opposed to just cramming what you do down their throat? That becomes a compelling part of your story in terms of how you sell to them? Like you said. And it does help you when they come in the gym. You have something to talk about, as opposed to like Oh, why are you here? You already know like you're training for your training for a 10 K. Great. Let this is what we can do for you, right? And that helps the whole sales process very good 100
percent. There's a whole psychology behind behind, asking for information in a way that's that's more, umm, more welcoming to clients than just give me your contact info. You know, it's it's like it's
like a first
date is the easiest analogy is like there's certain things did you don't want to, like, do or jump right into unlike that first date. If you want to strategically, like, you know, get to where you want to be with it. The same thing with the Internet. A lot of people those crazy to me. It's like they throw all tacked out the window where you're on the Internet. You specially gotta be, like on your best behavior and earn trust and make people feel feel safe like they don't. Your sketchy you're on the Internet. They don't know anything about you. In real life, you've got a lot of cool things working in your favor. Hopefully, the way you look, the way you present yourself, the way you talk, your voice, inflection and all these cool things you can do toe to build, trust and make people feel comfortable. You don't
much of any of that on the Internet, so you got to present yourself in a way that's credible. You know, you asked about the anatomy of a landing page. I think having a multi step form built into it is going to really help you qualify the lead. It's gonna help you convert at a higher rate. It's gonna help you get a higher quality lead having your trust factor's your reviews anywhere you can have, like a nasty scene on or a publication or like a local business top rated in this market or in this area favorite. You know, consumer favorite, these kinds of things that you can kind of add to build trust and make people feel comfortable. All all work in your favor, you know? So
okay, so to recap on your landing pages, probably there's I believe there's a framework for everything. Um, including including, like you said dating, right, The framer for dating. In my opinion, now that I'm dating anymore is you ask more questions, then you talk about yourself, right? No one wants to hear you talk about yourself, but they everyone wants to be interested, wants to have interest in them. And that's kind of like the lead form. Like talking about it as much a question. Don't shove a bunch information on their throat, but in terms of the framework, what do we got? We got probably a compelling message at the top. One.
Compelling coughing action? Absolutely. Ah, big fat call to action button that stands out that's prominent. See if you know if I get your, you know, get a free one on one assessment, something that's really going to get them to click. It should stand out. You don't want it to blend into the page. So you want we're looking for, like yellow orange Ah, bright blue. If it contrasts with the rest of the page, an arrow pointing to the button seems a little cheesy, but these things work. They make a difference. Ah, compelling trust factor reviews, ratings anything you can show if you've got, you know, a couple of 105 star reviews on Google and show that you don't want a link off your landing page. But you definitely want to showcase that on the page without a clickable link taking people away from your page. That's another thing. I see it. Sometimes People are still have, like their trust badge or a couple logos, but there may come actually clickable. So I could, like click onto this, like Jim directory site that shows every other gym in your local market that also has decent ratings or whatever things like that you never want to. Do you want to keep people on your page as long as possible. Um, you know, reviews are great, compelling, called the action and what you always also want to do. Always tell people this wanna link back to that page or two that quiz or two that lead form throughout your content throughout your block throughout the subway inner pages of your website throughout. Underneath your videos like that should be pretty prevalent throughout the site. Buttons and links always tell people so simple. They over think it'sjust buttons and links. You load up your content strategically with buttons and links that poor people back to either directly to that landing page or just directly to the lead form, and you layer that in strategically into your content. So as people are reading along, it's not just like one button on your home page that takes me to this. And then, as they click into your cider to other sections, air into your blogged, there's literally no other way for me to convert into elite. So now I'm just like reading your content, taking it all in when I click off of your page and I get sucked into a yelp or some other site that you don't control, that either sells leads or that lead gets lost in the in the mix because they get, you know, distracted by all these other things. So you always want to continually, as you put together content as you add information to your block, whatever strategically layer buttons and links into that content as people scroll that pull him back into that lead for more back to that landing page. So it's It's prevalent throughout all of your content. It lives in the sidebar of your block like these are things a lot of people don't think about. You look at a website a lot of times. It's just like a glorified brochure. It's just a bunch of stuff to read, and they're gonna cross your fingers and hope people call you or fill out your contact form. Your contact form sucks. People don't fill that out in most cases. So what other ways can you strategically pull people into something that's gonna ask for a lot of good information and do it in a way that doesn't scare him off? So that's just a really good way of combining the content that you have with that lead generation approach. So you're offering good information, but you're strategically the best value can offer, I think is make it really, really easy for people that you should be talking to, to give you some information so you can doctor him, and you can explain and educate and do all these wonderful things you can do in real life that your website can't really do for you. So the ultimate goal of your sight and the e mails that you're sending out and your block posts and your social media should be to pull people into an area that's gonna qualify him, and that's gonna turn him into an actual conversation.
Right? So to try and to try and this a lot of stuff. But to try and sum up pretty much everything, Andrew said here, I think this falls into a few actionable things. I like to give gym owners actionable things to kind of like think about, mull over and try and do one do keyword research using like, what were the tools you were saying? He is.
I'm a big fan of SCM rush dot com
is that for years that cost money,
uh, let you do a few searches for free. And then there's another one called Spy Food, and I don't I don't have any affiliate links to share anything. It's just ECM rush dot com, another one called Spy Fou, which is kind of like kung fu, but spy fu sp y f u dot com is another good one. You can use Google keyword planner, but that's only if you're running Google ads. So if you're not running those Google keyword planner won't work for you.
Okay, so, um, first thing would be find out some key words. And I think the top that tactic you were saying is I think you want to niche down a little bit, so if you're trying to go for, like, gym near me a little bit harder But if you're gonna go for, like, CrossFit near me, kiddo, diet plans like things that are very niche to you can you can actually start writing content about those things and driving traffic to him. Then what you want to do, secondly, has built a landing page creature, though. So let's say you bring someone in on the key toe diet plan paleo diet across that ju jitsu. Whatever it might be, you're gonna build a landing page that's targeted and speaking directly to that type of customer because that's how they found you. Then you're probably right. A bunch of content have a bunch of pages that are getting index and search on your block and or things that they can dive into from your home page that talk specifically about those niches that they're interested in with big buttons links and basically cross links over to these landing pages that will get people into that funnel. Correct that the simple version of what we're talking about her?
Yeah, you distilled, distilled it well, like I just did a quick search on paleo diet Justin ECM Russian, My end. It says the search volume on that's like 246,000 times per month on average. So it's a popular keyword. Ah, you could get a lot of people interested in that topic. Maybe you write a block post like Top three things. You didn't know where you need to know about paleo diet or Mythbusters. Is paleo dialing it really all it's cracked up to be, or whatever you cumbersome, different ways to kind of position that key. Order that topic into a block post or into an article or a video, and now you have something you can repurpose. You can do a Google ad campaign. You could do a block post. You can share it on Facebook, you know, Right
And then and then from that, From that block post, you're linking into your landing page, so you give people an opportunity, too. Not just stumble into it. But you're again. It's a framework, right? You're trying to give people a manufactured opportunity to express their interest in this and solution you're providing for them. It's a pain point that they have. That's why they're there. Okay, that's I think that's a mindset shift everyone in the gym comedians make is when someone's on your website. They're there there with intent. They're there because they're looking for a solution to a pain that they have. And it's It's up to you to express if you're an authority and fixing that pain and then giving them an opportunity to talk to you. So that's what this landing page concept is so important about, um, one
100% Yeah, and if I can share something of value, I know it's It's in my niche world that I'm in, but it's just so easy to see what what this actual example is and then say, Oh, I can see how that would apply, and I could, with some small tweaks, make this something I could recreate for my gym in my that world. There's a site called veterans united dot com. I don't that's not my website. I don't make money off driving traffic to it, but it is a very like, well done marketing mortgage marketing site. And when you go to that site of just on your own time, if you're listening to this and you start to see like, Oh, I look at that big fat call to action, look at that big old yellow, frickin pulsing button on the home page, a big arrow pointing to it. Then you click on and you start to see the interactive questionnaire that they present. That's how you do legion. So if you gonna recreate something very similar to that flow, then you start to click around on that website and you start to see oh, wow content mixed with buttons and lengths. No matter where I go on this website, they've got calls to action buttons and links layered into the content that keep pulling me back into this leader form very well done. Every business out there could benefit from creating the same kind of experience for their users where you have good information of good content. But that's nothing for you as a business owner. If you don't have the lead jen portion, it's like you've got your air conditioning on and you left all your windows open. We've got to make sure we're combining that content with the call calls to action in the lead capture. Otherwise, you get all these cliques and people you should be doing business with is just come the consumer content, they leave and somebody else gets their business because you didn't set your mousetrap,
right? There's also ah, a concept that I like. I like talking about, um, a trip since we're kind of in the S e o world H rest dot com does this in their blawg really well, where the entire blawg is about solving problems you might have doing s your marketing or any of that kind of stuff. But everywhere or somewhere in every block, they actually solve it with their with their software. They tell you how to do it with their software. So you come in thinking like, how do I find keywords and then they're like, Oh, and any trucks just go here and do this is this Gym owners could do this to like, If you're talking about paleo diet Baba, you can you can introduce the ideas, the paleo diet, what are the myths of the paleo diet and then be like, Well, if you remember of our gym, we have someone. So as a consultant, you can always talk to her. So it it provides a solution that they unwittingly don't even realize that they're looking for. But once they read it, they're like, OK, this is solved at the gym that I'm looking for is well right. And that's a good thing. Um, one thing I want to pivot to actually, you talked about having their conditioning on with the windows open, and that made me think about, um, something that I feel is a problem in the gym community and probably in your world, too. And that's gonna be just the general sales process and that and like lead follow up, how to nurture somebody and talk to them. I feel like a lot of people get leads and just let him die on the vine, just like let that fruit get stale and rotten, right instead of actually talking to them. Do you have any tips or tactics on how to actually engage somebody and get them through the sales funnel and make them make a decision, right?
Yeah, man. So that's a big, big one. You know, people are they all everyone wants leads. And then when they got leads there, like, they want these leads to close and they have to consider also that Hey, what you do and don't do in your follow up is going to make her break whether or not the leads are any good. So you give one guy like 10 leads and he's like, Oh, these air money, I got like, five or six deals. You give the same 10 leads to another person in there. They don't close anything like these. Leads suck. And it's like, No, actually, I'm sorry to tell you, I heard that voice mail you left him. That was pretty bad. You need to go back to the drawing board. Because if you're calling up your leads and those are the voicemails, you're leaving people and then you're not getting any calls back. There's like there's a way to do it. And I think in many cases, unless you are a well versed and experienced phone sales person, which on the mortgage side of things that there are definitely those people that are out there. But there's a lot of them that probably shouldn't be making that first contact. They are not good on the phone in terms of just a cold kind of coal. I mean, it's not a straight cold call, but it's still a lead that got generated. It's not like a referral or a past clients, so you you gotta be. You know, you gotta be on your a game with this kind of follow up methodology, and some people just aren't really good at it. They stumble through those first conversations. They're they're not recognizing hot buttons. They're talking more than they're listening like there's a whole framework, and I think you should have a good script of follow up questions that you ask You want, of course, if you if you've just taken that person through a multi step, lied for him like what we just talked about, which is what I recommend. You want a first of course confirmed the answers to those questions. So let's just say you got 15 questions answered. Okay, Awesome. You kind of want to go through some of those and make sure that that is correct. And you've got something to work with there you want to clarify, but also, hopefully, you can expand on some of these things and learn a little bit more about the client. You build rapport, you ask more questions. There's like a framework. There's a little dance you've got to do and be good at and you gotta practice. And if you're not really good at it, or you can put someone on the first kind of line of making those outbound calls and communications for you, that is good at it. That is, that is ideal because these these calls and these follow ups. If you're not good at it and you're blowing it, it's not that these leads suck. It's that you're not really good at it, and you're missing out on opportunities to close deals because you're saying the wrong thing or you're not listening or you're not communicating fast enough or or often enough, they say the average sales made on like touch number 5 to 12. Most people don't even try more than once or twice that to call up a lead. So if you're like one of those, I'm gonna call him once, didn't get him, but it put him on my drip and I'm gonna put him in my newsletter once a month. That's just like burning through opportunities. You gotta touch him multiple times. You know, speed to contact is huge. Really important to be that first person to talk to him. If they just submitted a lead form and it's during business hours, you want to be able to get back to him like within a minute or two. Ideally, I mean, in the mortgage world, it's like within 5 to 10 seconds because people are it's literally you hit a sight, you submit your information. Half of the sites out there are selling your information. So now you're just getting pummeled by phone calls. It's not like that, I'm sure, exactly in your world. But you know, the speed to contact, regardless is important to be the first person to touch base with and have a good conversation with that client. You can build rapport establish a relationship. All these wonderful things you can do when you actually connect with them. But multiple touches being quick to contact and follow up. Not letting a lead sit around for two or three hours before you call him. By that time, they've probably already gone somewhere else or you call them and they don't recognize the phone number. They don't remember filling something out. Now you have this awkwardness of, you know, trying to explain why you're calling. That's all kind of a mess, like the quicker you follow up if I just filled out your form and now my phone is ringing within a couple of minutes, I If I don't recognize that number, I'm a little bit more likely. Thio answer. Because I just felt something out and makes sense. And what here's. Here's another trick in the mortgage world because this is the lead. Business is so big. Here is if they don't answer and you just called him a lot of people. Don't answer that first phone call. Hang up, calm right away. Right again. The phone rings twice. They're like, Oh, wait, Maybe I should answer. I don't recognize that number, but I'm more likely cause that first call if I don't recognize the phone number, Think about yourself. I never my phone rings all day long. I do not answer the phone. If I don't recognize the number somebody calls me back to back, I'm more likely to answer. And I know the tricks that these mortgage people play, but it's just it's an important thing to think about. And, um, you know, calling them back to back is something that if you if you are good on the phone and they do, answer that second time like you should be able to talk your way into explaining why you called him twice without them getting upset about it.
11 thing I'm actually finding to be more of a trick because I actually have my phone set to not even ring when I don't know the number. I got too many, but a lot of people will text me immediately and or leave a voicemail. Before, I would never listen to voice mails. But now that we've gotten to the point where robocalls air so crazy, um, I think texting is probably the best, so if they don't answer, they probably are like me. And don't answer over like you. And don't answer unknown calls. Just sent him an immediate text. Hey, it's Dan. You just You know, you just filled out our form. I'd love to live to try with you. Give me a call, this number. Because I'll always call someone back if they text me. But most of time, if they just call and give up, that's it. Because I won't. I won't. If they especially they don't leave a voicemail. I won't even know it was them.
Yeah, 100 Agreed. Couldn't agree more. We've got a company that we work with. Ah, that does follow up an appointment setting on behalf of business professionals. They're really good at this. They use a I and these machine learning. But they've got real people staffed 24 7 to follow up with your leads for you. Japanese is It's a coming of a verse dot io like bible verse, but verse dot io and they've expanded beyond mortgage and real estate. They're doing a lot more of these days. They're really good. They've done a great job for a lot of our clients who are struggling with this important, important piece of the puzzle, but they do the lead follow up, and they've They've done a lot of research based on their millions of communications that they've they've done over the years, and they found that the text first approach is the best way to follow up with their leads. And in fact, unless a client request specifically that they call first, their method is text first. So great, great, definitely point there. And then also what they have found, which is kind of interesting is they text an open ended question. So and they give you mom, they share this openly, so I'm not sharing their secret sauce. It's pretty cool, just like with a note, like an email you know, with an auto responder email like, Hey, when's the When's the best time to reach you? A lot of times, people will send out an auto responder email. It's just kind of like a A book is just like stuff to read, and it's just like, OK supposed to do something here, But if you leave it with hey, when's the best time to call you or was the best time to reach you? People are more likely to reply to that auto responder. Same kind of thing with their text messages. But here's the trick. Here is what they do. It's really cool. They say, Hey, got your inquiry. They present themselves as your assistant, which they are. They say, like, Hey, this is Alex on Ah, Dan's assistant over at Jim Os. Ah, got your inquiry just wanted to see. Would you prefer we communicate via text? Or would you prefer I call? Yeah, so you get two options. There is no third option. There is no take a hike. There is only do you want us to call or do you wanna chat via text? And they got it down to like it's 140 or 100 whatever character it fits in one text, it's It's well done, but it's basically that's that's the option. They explain who they are present themselves to, you know, t make it clear who they're following up on behalf of. Then they ask you, Do you want to do this via via text? Or would you prefer I call you and the person is like text? I you know, I get off work at five o'clock or whatever they respond. It's the letting go like or you call me now or call me after six o'clock on that work or whatever. It's pretty pretty cool what that does for you, but it opens up the conversation that gives them an option that keeps them in control of the scenario. But you can kind of see what they prefer to communicate with. And, ah, of course, like you were saying, People are so much more likely to respond to text messages than they are to phone calls. So that has been something we're seeing on our end to. It's just
until, uh, that'll that'll be the case until the robot people figure that out and then fuck it all up for everyone else. Again, I'm sure that day is coming.
Cat and mouse, man.
Yeah, So I mean, one interesting thing to say about that and this is why I'm so excited for gym owners to start turning this on in their brain that they're these frameworks. And there's these systems out there that work and that there's a lot that they can learn because this this just plays the human psychology. Like when you're asked a question. Something about the ego of human beings, me drive us to answer. So that's what that's why the very simple marketing tactic of just asking a nine letter not mean a nine word question or, you know, the simple question without a lot of crap proceeding. It usually works because people are not used to it, first of all, and second of all, they feel rude, not not answering. So that's how you actually can start the engagement and start that conversation with something so simple instead of pounding them with, like, this is what we do and this is where we are. That's why we're great. Just be like, How can I? How do you prefer to be talked to? Texture, texture? Call. I'll do either your call. You know, it's huge stuff. 100% Um, so here's let's let's go ahead.
That's going through out there that I think a lot of people overlook and that's just one of my favorite areas of opportunity. Just to think about is your thank you Paige. It's a small. It's a small, often overlooked detail that matters a lot if I just filled out your lead form. What do I see next? Most of the time, it's terrible. It's thanks. A little message pops up. Someone will call you or your Your information has been submitted. And that's all you get your like. Sometimes you don't even see it go off. It's like it's a little blip on the screen for, like, five seconds and it's gone And you didn't even, like, Wait, did not just did my growth like that's a really, really good opportunity to optimize further. Like one of my favorite things we're seeing clients do with with great results is you take him to a thank you, Paige. That's got like a video of you introducing yourself, letting people know Hey, here's my Here's the next steps. Here's what you can expect. Here's what we like to d'oh. Here's what you're gonna get from us. My follow up. You're going to get a text message typically within like a minute or two of you submitting your information. You're going to see us follow up
with you can start to
like, set the framework of like what's happening next. And then what, of course, if you their tools that will automate that first text for you, for example, that within while they're still watching that that thank you, Paige video Where you just told him they're going to get a tax, their phone beats and they see OSHA. There's that text message you just told me he was going to send. You've already delivered on that first promise. You can also say a check and check your email. I've sent you like my free. My free kind of bonus I like to do is a free top 10 fitness programs You should look at into 20 in 2020 or something where you could kind of give him something of value for the time they just spent. And to kind of keep him sitting tight like, Hey, don't go running off to a bunch of other blog's or websites. Okay? I just sent you something really cool. It's like my in my nutrition e book for 2020 or whatever. Joe, go check your email. I've already sent that to you on auto responder can kick back something very simple, like a Natacha Mint or ah, book or a downloadable e book. They can get from that auto responder email. So now they're going back to their gmail dot like look for the email you sent them that if they didn't know to go look for that, probably would have gone to junk. Now that you're going to go look for that cool thing that you just promised to give him, you can also say, Hey, by the way, check out below. I've included some of my recent client reviews from testimonials. This is what people just like you are saying about working with us, and when you're ready, you can always book a time below, and that could be a link to like, your calendar, you know, so now linked to your calendar. Lee. So there's certain things you're doing, like you're building the credibility of the trust. You're giving them a little bit of a reward, your matching like a face in the name with Like Who's going to be calling and following up with them? You're letting them know what what the next steps are, what to expect, like you're setting yourself up for success with that first follow up call in that 1st 1st engagement with that person. By doing these kinds of things that are so simple it's automated. Now, every person that ever feels out your lead form is going to see that video. They're going to see the next steps. Some of them, I would say, maybe one out of every three or one out of every five are actually booking themselves into your schedule because they've got a link to your calendar, Lee. Now they're setting up their own appointments with you, like beautiful. This is all automation that moves things the right direction. And again,
this is this is where again I always keep going back to the frameworks and what you've just explained this. This is like, if you're listening this right now, I want you to appreciate what just happened. Like Andrew just explained to you how to build your lead funnel, and he's not a fucking gym owner. Like the techniques and the tactics of what he does for mortgage brokers applies 100% for you, and he knows nothing about running a gym. But he just laid out how you can build a better intake and lead funnel, um, with knowing nothing about it. So the point is, all this stuff is out there. All this stuff is attainable. This knowledge is out there. And you guys, if you spend more time figuring these things out, it's gonna impact your business 100 times more. Then if you get another kettle bell, sir. And that's my mission Here right now is to try and turn you guys into. You already know the movement. You know how to coach a gym. You know how to coach a class. You know how to relate with people in the gym. You need to learn how to set up your marketing funnels. You need to learn how to sell. You need to have it create retention systems. You need to how to get referrals. You need to learn how to do all of these other things that you were never trained how to do professionally. And you're gonna transform your business into something that's just nuts compared to what you got going on right now. Andrew, thank you for your time for hit. For stopping in. That was some great stuff. Um, hopefully if you're listening this you have a pen and paper out the whole time. I'm gonna preface the intro will get a pen and paper. Alex is a lot to learn. Um, you dropped a ton of knowledge bombs. We appreciate your time so much. Andrew, where can people find you online? If they want to hit you up, learn more, engage you to talk. Whatever.
You know what best that's gonna be? Our website lied, pops dot com learn a little bit about us. We're releasing some cool new stuff in the future that might be applicable to your world. I'll share that with you, Dan, when it's ready. But for now, lead pops dot com by far is the best place to learn more and kind of check us out.
Yeah. Wouldn't it be nuts if you took all this information that you know about Lee Generation and you applied it for Jim's? That would be crazy.
Yeah, we'll talk about that, cause it sze not too far off.
Yeah, I was giving a nice lead in there. All right, All right, guys, Thank you so much for checking out and get another episode that Jim os podcast from push press. Um, until next time Dan Uemura signing off. Keep running on those businesses, guys. See you later. Oh, yeah? What'd you think? Another episode done of the gym. Oh, his podcast. We're trying to make you a better business owner and hopefully checking out some of the stuff. And you had to say, did just that. Lots of key things to take away about, like, you know what it's like to go be going through the lead funnel and and and like what types of questions to ask people and how to qualify them and and get them into your sales funnel sales is such a critical part of a gym. I don't think a lot of people realize, um, the people that you don't even see show up in your lead list or the people who even know who contact you to to try out your gym are all the people you're missing. And it's one of those things where you don't know what you don't know unless you have proper analytics peppered through your site, and you're paying attention to exactly how your sights are converting. You don't really know how many leads you're missing because you have bad wording or bad photos or you don't have a direct call to action or things aren't simple for people to get their information in what I can tell you is if people are visiting your Web site, they're interested in your product that I can't tell you because they found it and they're looking at it, especially if they're hitting more than one page. But, um, if you're not getting a good amount of those people filling out ah form, that's letting you know that they're interested in them, then there's a lot of optimization you can do so bad news. You've been losing a lot of leads. Probably good news. If you actually pay attention, what's happening and figure out ways to make this work, then this is something that you can dramatically increase your business with. We put out a lot of logs and information on how to make a better converting website because we build websites for some of our clients. If you're one of our clients checking this out and you didn't know that or you, maybe you're starting to realize that there's a lot that you could do for your website to make it better, Um, hit one of us up in the support chat. We only build websites for our clients. We tie it directly in with all of our offerings on the push press corps side. So if you're not a push press client can't help you there for today. But if you are a push press client Ah, chapter one of the guys in the support one of the guys and gals in this sport channel and we will send you the right direction with information on how to make this work as always. Hopefully you had a good time listening to us. Hopefully you learned a lot. Um, we're trying really hard to bring intelligent people to you who know what they're talking about in areas that will help your business. If you feel like this, help your business today. I really appreciate it. If you gave us alike on whatever system you're listening to, if you subscribe to us that way, the Pope castle starts throwing up auto magically right into your listening device. We don't have to You have to come back and find that all the time. Um I mean, talk about such an easy way to continually get information right on your doorstep. That's gonna help you run a better Jim. We released new podcast episodes to subscribers on Fridays and we release it to the general world on Monday. I mean, what better reason to subscribe them To get this information and listen to it over the weekend when you got free time. Perfect. All right, guys. So hope you got a lot out of this. Get back out and you're Jim's. Make some stuff happen, and I'll catch you on the other side. That was the worst Outro ever. But I'm gonna let us slide. See you guys later.